Hansi Flick (56) has a huge task ahead of him. In the big kicker interview, the national coach explains how he wants to lead the national team back to the top of the world.
The meeting point for his first interview with kicker as national coach was the Villa Kennedy in Frankfurt last Wednesday (29 September). Hansi Flick had travelled from Dortmund, where he had watched BVB’s 1-0 victory over Sporting in the Champions League. And he was on his way to Munich, where FC Bayern met Dynamo Kiev that evening (5:0).
After the victorious start in September against Liechtenstein, Armenia and Iceland, the second tour with the World Cup qualifiers against Romania on Friday in Hamburg and against North Macedonia on Monday in Skopje is now on the agenda. Flick took an hour and a half to talk about his first experiences in office and explained how German football in general and the national team in particular should develop on their way back to the top of the world.
Mr. Flick, is it a different feeling to sit on the bench in the function of national coach than it is to be in charge of a club?
It is a different responsibility, but I have already felt it in a similar way as Jogi Löw’s assistant. I know that the position of national coach is a big challenge – and I try everything to be successful with my team. In that, the job is no different from my previous ones. But yes, you can feel that you are now representing the whole country together with the team. It’s a special feeling to hear the national anthem before the games.
Which anthem do you like melodically better, the national anthem or the Champions League anthem?
The national anthem.
Don’t you miss the daily grind and the three-day rhythm with a club team?
As it is, I think it’s good, this mixture. But it’s true: the job profiles are fundamentally different. Overall, the role of national coach offers more opportunities for influence.
“We want to break down the way of thinking, here the club and there the association, together. “
HANSI FLICK
In what way?
In the first step, of course, it’s about the success of the A team. But connected to that, it’s also about training and talent development – about bringing out the best for all of German football. This process challenges us all – on a daily basis. I want us to work together and be there for each other, the association for the clubs and vice versa. For me, there is still too often a focus on one another. We want to break this way of thinking, here the club and there the federation, together. We need even better interaction, even more constructive cooperation.
What needs to be done?
It’s like everywhere in life, for example also in the family: communication, appreciation and loyalty are important. You have to talk to each other.
Is the league ready for this?
I feel it is a good cooperation. It helps that I’ve been working at the club for the past two seasons and have had appropriate contact with the other clubs.
When you dropped Ridle Baku from the squad after the 6-0 win against Armenia and before the trip to Iceland, Wolfsburg manager Jörg Schmadtke publicly criticised poor communication. That sounded like old thinking after all.
I had spoken to his coach Mark van Bommel and also to sporting director Marcel Schäfer about Ridle Baku. Both thought it was good that we addressed the situation openly. They also thought it was sensible and right not to take him along so that he didn’t have to go on an unnecessary trip, but could train at home with the club instead. It was all communicated cleanly.
In which moments does your experience, which you gained as a co-coach at the DFB from 2006 to 2014, help you?
I still know many members of staff. At the same time, I have also become familiar with the other perspective, so I know about the demands and pressures of club coaches, about the many games and trips of the professionals. I understand the concerns of the club coaches. That’s also why a win against Iceland in the last of the three games in September was so important. It meant that the players returned to their clubs with a good feeling and a tailwind, and they performed well there again. There we are again with the togetherness and togetherness that we imagine. The national players benefit from success and good performances in the national team. And so their clubs also benefit – and vice versa.
Are you surprised by this good start to your tenure?
I knew we had a good team. Jogi Löw also pointed that out to me.
How often do you have contact with Löw?
All the time.
What does it mean when you want to be a present national coach, as you said yourself?
I see a lot of games live on the ground. It’s a privilege to be welcomed everywhere and to be able to watch such games and players. But also away from the games we want to be present as a coaching team – for our players.
Your assistant Danny Röhl was in Paris for PSG’s Champions League match against Manchester City. Julian Draxler, Ilkay Gündogan and Thilo Kehrer didn’t play a minute. Nothing but expenses?
No. We look at our players, but we’re just as interested in the way teams play: What is potentially useful for us? What developments are there in top international football?
Do you also have contact with the foreign club coaches of your players, like Mauricio Pochettino in Paris?
Of course. I had a very good and interesting exchange with Pochettino just recently.
Will you be welcomed as a national coach or as a sextuple coach?
I still get congratulated in some cases, but the six titles are in the past (Bundesliga, DFB Cup, DFL Super Cup, Champions League, UEFA Super Cup and Club World Cup in 2020 with FC Bayern; editor’s note). It’s always about the current work.
“We are about enthusiasm, about conviction and about dedication. “
FLICK
Have you set a timetable for yourself for each stage goal?
If we were to estimate our top performance only for 2026, no one in Germany would understand. You can have a perspective idea, but success in the now is always elementary, in the club as in the national team. That’s what it’s all about: it’s always about the greatest possible success, the maximum success possible under the current circumstances.
So Qatar is not an intermediate step towards the home European Championship in 2024?
No. We want to be successful at the World Cup, not just play along nicely. Our goal is for everyone to identify with the national team again. That’s not only about sporting success, but also about the right mentality, the intensity, the commitment, the greed. That’s what the fan wants to see from a team – and we demand these qualities, too. I don’t want us to stop playing football when we’re leading 2-0, but to want to add the third and fourth goals. We are about enthusiasm, conviction and dedication.
Captain Manuel Neuer said at the beginning of your time as national coach that he wanted to become world champion in 2022. Realistic announcement or pious wish?
In November 2019, no one would have thought that Bayern Munich would win the Champions League in 2020. There are many players in the national team from Bayern Munich and Chelsea who have won the Champions League and know what it feels like to be successful. Everyone who was once allowed to have that feeling wants to continue to be successful.
The start with the victories against Liechtenstein, Armenia and Iceland was promising. What do the three victories tell you?
They showed us that the team is willing and gives everything for success. The training sessions were very good, characterised from the start by a lot of dynamism and intensity, great quality. The players have met our demands, the mixture of professionalism, creativity, experience and youth is right. These victories must give us self-confidence.
Will this autumn lay the foundation for the World Cup in just over a year?
We started to introduce our game idea to the team – and trained the corresponding content. The exercises focused on intensity, activity and clean passing quality. Now we are deepening the training. We don’t see each other in the time between internationals, especially in the four-month break after the games in November. In this phase, we still have to keep contact with the players and accompany them. We will also use this time for increased analysis.
Are there any points you already have your eye on?
For example, we have to focus more on the outside-back position, which we want to have interpreted offensively, and bring our ideas closer to the players.
In Iceland, Antonio Rüdiger scored from a free kick. Is this goal already a credit to the new standards coach Mads Buttgereit?
He has shares in it, yes. A stationary ball is about surprising the opponent by hinting at something and then doing something else. In this one situation, every player involved has his task, which he has to stick to in all consistency, because otherwise the whole action doesn’t work, for example if an opposing player has to be blocked and that doesn’t happen. This can and must be trained.
“A golf ball also gets a different trajectory if you hit it in a different place or with a different area of the club. “
HANSI FLICK
Can such a special coach, by teaching how and where and at what angle a free kick taker must hit the ball, actually make shooting techniques more precise so that the ball flies into the goal?
You can’t teach a player with no shooting quality to hit balls like Marco Reus, Leroy Sané or Mario Basler in the past. For refinement, you need a basis. But then you can still improve. A golf ball also has a different trajectory if you hit it in a different place or with a different part of the club. It is the same with football. The player’s conviction is increased by taking pictures and communicating them. My conviction is: we can still improve a lot in football.
Does a national coach have enough time to communicate his ideas to the ever-changing staff?
That’s another reason why the exchange with the respective club coach is so important. If there is agreement, everyone involved benefits. But once again, we feel this togetherness?
When Jürgen Klinsmann arrived with the rubber bands in 2004, he was ridiculed. Does football sometimes lack the willingness to innovate?
Today, all teams use the rubber bands, not only in Germany. Jürgen has already made a difference there. Also in the willingness of the players in football to try out and accept new things.
Activity, intensity, tempo were the buzzwords used by co-trainer Danny Röhl during the first training camp in Stuttgart at the beginning of September. What should the style of your team look like until the 2022 World Cup?
The benchmark is the 6:0 against Armenia. The team put the opponent under very high pressure and tried to counter-press when they lost the ball and force the opponent to make mistakes. In possession, with all the ball security and ball control, they always focused on creating chances and scoring goals. For us, if there is a chance to play forward, we want to do it. And: In every situation, with or without the ball, there must be activity on the pitch. Every player has a task in every second.
In future, it will be more about counter-pressing, attacking early, winning the ball quickly and switching rather than the dominance with a lot of possession that was preached in the past?
I am a friend of possession football – but not in the form that we constantly pass the ball to each other. We always want to see a goal, the idea of offence must be visible in every contact. There is a difference between bouncing the ball backwards and turning up after a pass and going straight to goal.
How do you see the current state of the national team: Does 14th place in the world rankings accurately reflect the current performance capability?
This ranking doesn’t play a big role for me. But our goal is clear: We want to get back to where we once were, to the top of the world, to the top of the world. But we are aware that we still have a long way to go.
Is a stable basic system more helpful for a national team than the variability preached in the past?
The 4-2-3-1 system has given us stability in the first three games, and it should at the beginning. Nevertheless, it is only an initial alignment. In the game itself, we expect and demand completely different things from the players, depending on the behaviour of the opponent: How does he set up? How does he set us up? With one striker? With two? Or how do we occupy the outside lane so that we don’t block each other’s spaces? Accordingly, changes are made in our formation.
Will there be future debates about the three-man backline like at the European Championship?
The deciding factor is always what I do with the formation. Whether with a three-man or five-man chain, it all depends on the implementation: How are my wingers positioned, where are the midfielders? Do I create superior numbers in midfield with a three-man chain? The four-man backfield is our standard, the three-man backfield a possibility.
What is the importance of the axle?
The axis is always the centre, goalkeeper, central defence, central midfield and the central striker. I see the outsiders as creativity and often difference makers. But they can only develop to their full potential if the axis provides a certain stability.
Which players alongside Manuel Neuer, Joshua Kimmich and Leon Goretzka are indispensable constants in your personnel tableau?
The whole thing still has to form, it’s a process. Toni Rüdiger is playing convincingly, Niklas Süle has also done very well. Both gave us stability in the September games. In midfield, I also count Ilkay Gündogan with his enormous class in addition to Goretzka and Kimmich.
And on the offensive side?
On the ten we have Marco Reus, Thomas Müller, Kai Havertz and Florian Wirtz. Havertz can play several positions, Müller and Reus can do the same. Up front it’s currently Timo Werner, but we also trust a player like Karim Adeyemi with this role. And on the outside, Leroy Sané and Serge Gnabry come in with their great quality. Then there’s Jamal Musiala, who I hope will keep his carefree style of play for a long time. Each of these players can bring special elements and different impulses to the game. We are well-staffed in all positions. In goal, on the ten, in central defence, on the wing. And we can use some players in different ways, Musiala, for example, can also play as a six.
Julian Brandt and Julian Draxler have been out of action since the European Championship. Will both ever prove their great talent?
Nobody is out of action. We have our eye on them, of course, their qualities are unquestionable.
Are you actually confident that you can rely on the gifted but often injured Reus in a tournament?
We are convinced that we need his skills. I am in close exchange with his club coach Marco Rose.
Do you have to cut back on what you want because you don’t have the right personnel for it?
No, zero. The quality here is very high, I am absolutely convinced of my players and their possibilities.
Have Süle and Rüdiger recommended themselves as the duo of the very near future in the centre of defence?
They have done well in the first three games. I registered this and was very happy about it.
“I want to be authentic and treat others the way I would like to be treated. “
HANSI FLICK
Does this make Mats Hummels less important?
No way. Mats wasn’t able to train optimally after the European Championship because of his injury. We’ll just have to wait and see with him. But basically he has outstanding quality. I spoke with him for a long time and told him that we will always be open and honest with each other. The players have this guarantee with me. I want to be authentic and treat others as I would like to be treated myself.
Did you experience during your years as Bayern head coach that such an open and clear leadership style is appreciated by the players?
Yes. However, clear words are not always easy for a coach. I don’t like to go to a player with bad news. I’d also rather tell him, you’re playing and you’re great.
Did Leroy Sané know and particularly appreciate your frank words?
Leroy is a very fine guy, a great footballer, we are very happy about his current development. It was clear to us that he needs time, but also confidence. I think it has now ‘clicked’ with him. This development was important – and it came at the right time.
Is Timo Werner the same type that needs special intercession and he is already repaying that trust?
He scored his goal against Iceland, that was very important, that was elementary. We really wanted to keep him on the pitch so that he could still score that goal – and I’m glad that it happened that way.
How far away is Mario Götze from a comeback?
We have been watching him. Mario has qualities where we need them, in the final third. He has a good technique, a good first contact, is goal-threatening, but can also play the last decisive pass. But in his position, the quality is simply very high, I almost have an oversupply here.
Is Jonas Hofmann as a right-back more than an experiment?
He did very well against Armenia, defensively as well, and showed that the formation wasn’t all that wrong. We had perceived his opponent to be one of the strongest Armenians in terms of football, Jonas shut him down and also made his mark offensively. He has good speed, a class technique. But Lukas Klostermann also did a good job after his substitution against Iceland.
Thilo Kehrer is not a regular player at Paris St. Germain, why do you still go for him?
It always depends on where you play. Musiala doesn’t play every game at Bayern Munich either, but there’s no question about his quality. It’s the same with Thilo Kehrer. I’m sure he’ll get his fair share of games in Paris. The next example is Bernd Leno …
.. who has currently forfeited his place at Arsenal.
He’ll make games in England – and of course we hope he’ll become number 1 again at Arsenal. We are convinced of his quality. Manuel Neuer is our number 1 ahead of Marc-André ter Stegen, Bernd Leno and Kevin Trapp. We have clearly communicated this to the players so that everyone knows where they stand at the moment. But everyone also has the opportunity to improve in this ranking.
Did the tough 2:0 against Liechtenstein once again reveal how badly the German national team needs a classic centre-forward?
It wasn’t the centre-forward who was lacking, but the self-confidence and the conviction to go one-on-one. At first, it was still too much about not making a mistake. But if you dribble, you can lose the ball. We need the conviction to win the dribble and the conviction that nothing will happen even if we don’t succeed. That was much better against Armenia and Iceland. As for the centre-forward: Lukas Nmecha is someone who can score a goal out of nothing, I’ve already talked about him with Mark van Bommel. He has quality, but he might need a bit more time.
Do you break out in a sweat at the thought that in just over a year’s time you’ll have to present a team that’s fit for the World Cup?
No, not at all. We stay in constant contact with the players to explain to them how we want to play football. And we still have opportunities to play in.
When listening to you, one gets the feeling that the office is not a burden for you, but only a pleasure.
That is also the case. I get to work with the best players in Germany, that is something very special for me, a great honour. That gives me great pleasure.
How much is this clouded by the fact that you have an employer at the DFB who is going through a major crisis of confidence and is currently trying to reposition itself?
I spoke earlier about togetherness in football. And that means involving everyone and working constructively as a team for the cause. Of course, there will always be conflicts of interest. But I believe that in any position, it’s always a good idea not to take yourself too seriously.
“If the emperor signs autographs, we can do that too. “
HANSI FLICK
Is there a difference in public perception since you became national coach? And do you appear differently now?
Public perception has already changed in the past two years, the attention has increased a lot. Now it has become even more so. But I don’t think I have changed. I don’t do anything as a national coach that I would do differently at home in my family. I present myself the way I am. When people ask me nicely for selfies or autographs, I’m happy to do so. That’s part of it, that’s how I want my players to be. Franz Beckenbauer was always the best example for me. He never turned down an autograph request – and he was the best footballer Germany ever had. If the Kaiser signs autographs, we can do the same.
Do you feel the representative and political dimension of the office?
I know and I feel that national coach is an exposed position.
You said earlier that it’s always about the greatest possible success. When would the World Cup be a success for you?
When you compete with the German national team in a tournament, it’s not enough to get through the group stage. We are expected to reach at least the quarter-finals, better the semi-finals. But that’s also the expectation of every player.
Oliver Bierhoff said years ago that the DFB’s claim was that the best coaches should work for the association. Recent examples tend to show that these coaches leave the association at the first opportunity. Why is this so?
The thesis is not true. The current example of Toni Di Salvo, who has now been promoted to head coach of the U 21s, proves the opposite. Why did so many coaches develop at Hoffenheim under Bernhard Peters and Ralf Rangnick? Because there were clear structures and a clear idea of football there, because the coaches were promoted there. That is exactly what the DFB must continue to do.
